Where Are We Now? 001 // Joé Blais

A&R and Label Manager at Other Projects

Thanks for joining and welcome to the first in what loosely promises to be a regular series of conversations with people doing interesting things in the world of music, particularly focused on the spheres of music streaming, digital strategy and audience development.

I didn’t have to look very far for our first guest; Joé Blais, label manager and A&R at Songular’s label Other Projects. Other Projects is home to some of the UK’s most exciting new artists, including Downtown Kayoto, Fredwave and OC Saint. Joé has been instrumental in signing and helping to develop these artists over the past few years.

We chatted about the crossover between culture and data; being genreless in a world that has traditionally been divided along genre lines; and how digital platforms and artists are reacting to wider changes in the industry…

Sam Lee: Let's start by talking about Other Projects. What is your creative vision for the label?

Joé Blais: With Other Projects, what we set out from the start is to look for artists that embrace the ‘otherness’ in themselves. We kept finding ourselves working with artists that didn't really fit into the general moulds of genres. That's when we realised that it’s actually the element of artistry that we want to embrace when it comes to working with and signing artists. The alternative lane may not be the quickest route to financial stardom, but I think looking at it from a long-term game, those are the artists that are going to gain the fanbases that are going to stand the test of time rather than being a flash in the pan.

SL: It feels like streaming platforms reflect a broader sense of ‘alternative’ more now than they did three or four years ago, when a lot of the programming was based around fairly narrow interpretations of genre. Have you felt that that's something that Other Projects artists have benefited from?

JB: Absolutely. I think it's opened up a whole new pool of listeners and had an impact on their ability to find music. I think people who were really into alternative spaces would maybe not have used Spotify or another DSP like that as much, say, three or four years ago to find the music that they like because they felt that those alternative spaces weren't as embraced as much. You had to go off on your own to discover those genres, whether it was on SoundCloud, Reddit or just going down YouTube rabbit holes or whatever. But they have done a really good job at embracing that world and building spaces for fans to talk about and support those artists.

SL: Do you think that certain platforms are better for discovery of certain genres? We know SoundCloud is good for electronic, for instance. 

JB: Yeah, definitely. Exactly like you said with SoundCloud, I think the electronic scene on there is so healthy and growing. I think it's an amazing space for that at the moment and bringing that platform back. Spotify have been really good for displaying alternative pop and indie bands and stuff like that. I think they've built a really good space for discovery on that front with playlists like Lorem and Pollen. Then for rap and alternative music, I really think TikTok and Discord are the places where you're going to find the most activated fans and people that want to discover that stuff. The underground rap scene is really interesting; it keeps fluctuating in popularity, but the underground rap scene on TikTok and Discord at the moment is really building. So I think it goes across all platforms but depends on genre.

SL: What do you look for in an artist?

JB: I think that comes from the first answer in terms of our creative vision for the label - really, it's just about embracing that ‘otherness’ of an artist. But also, I think nowadays labels and DSPs are aligned on what they're looking for an artist. Now, more than ever, we're looking for artists that are self-sufficient and know what they're doing, and we're just here to assist them and champion them. And I feel at the moment DSPs are looking for artists that are building their own organic fan base themselves are self-producing, doing all the creative themselves and so on. That's always like my number one green flag when looking for an artist because it just helps move everything along really quickly when they understand all those elements.

SL: We definitely see the impact of an artist's cultural capital driving the support they get. Five or six years ago, you could rely on a couple of playlists to get you millions of streams. Nowadays, that's different and there's a lot more work to be put in. But I think you're right - if the artist knows who they're talking to, what they're trying to say, has fans who are listening and they're authentic to all of those things, then that feels like the first piece of the puzzle and everything else can follow that. But it does feels like, from a streaming standpoint, you need that cultural piece, but also the data and engagement story to be able to show that the cultural story is translating into on-platform consumption. I wondered if there’s any other promo or marketing drivers you're finding that DSPs are particularly interested in?

JB: I think it's like you said, I think it's exactly the same. It's the cultural capital, like where they stand within their community. I think real-world application is more important than ever now for artists. During COVID, DSPs took a step back and just were looking straight into figures and numbers and how artists were growing online and stuff like that. I think that's still important. But some of those artists have come out the other side of COVID and can't pull together an organic fan base because there was no real-world activations. Again, that's one of the most important things. Whether it's selling live tickets or bringing together people for a pop-up, it's all those elements that help to show DSPs that an artist is growing properly.

SL: Yeah. The way we approach streaming campaigns is to build the story around an artist using what the artist is doing themselves. You start with the storytelling, and then you put in the work along with the artist and their team to focus on the data and build up the engagement piece. Then when those two cross over, that's when you need to know how to spot the opportunity and what the strengths of each platform are, so that you can pull the right levers at the right time across the board. That’s when the whole campaign feels balanced and not reliant on editorial support, instead using each platform's programs to maximum effect.

JB: Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say; DSPs are looking to accentuate an artist's campaign nowadays rather than being the thing propping it up.

SL: It seems to me like the role of a label or distributor has changed quite dramatically over the last few years. You speak to a lot of artists and managers. What's your sense of what they're looking for from their release partner?

JB: I think it builds on from what I was saying about the self-sufficiency of artists and managers nowadays. I feel that artists and managers have learned to educate themselves a lot better on what the role of a label actually should be and how labels can help push the artist forward without leaving them in a dire financial state. Being self-sufficient really allows an artist to pick and choose and find a distributor or label that works for them. Say, with Songular and Other Projects and our experience running streaming campaigns and analysing data; a lot of the time that is something that an artist won't have experience in. I think they're able to now analyse what they need from a label now rather than it just being as simple as: you’re a label, we need money. Now they're now looking to spend that money effectively on things that are actually going to drive the campaign and build fan bases. I just feel artists and managers are more attuned and more locked in now to what's going to help them. They've seen so many artists do it independently and be successful. 

SL: I agree. And I think that the idea of picking and choosing for an artist and their manager goes beyond just the label and the distributor, doesn't it? It's about, as you say, putting together the right team around them that's properly invested in the project and on board with the vision and can deliver what the artist has decided they need. We see this in conversations on the Songular side too. Previously, managers would have been signing deals for the money a lot of the time, or were interested in certain distribution deals because they'd get a certain amount of budget and they'd only pay a low royalty rate. Whereas now I think people are starting to understand the importance of the quality of service within those deals. Sometimes that means signing to a label that you think has got a solid track record and that you think is going to be good at delivering what you need. Sometimes it means signing with a setup that's a bit more flexible so you can put your own team together so that you're aligned on your objectives. But yeah, I think the days of signing an off-the-peg distribution deal to get 10 grand feel largely in the past. The deal offerings are more bespoke now, which feels like a positive thing that allows people to do things their own way.

Connect with Joé on LinkedIn
Joé also curates Songular’s RADAR Spotify playlist